lar_laughs: (Firefly - the boys - to the Batmobile)
Okay, friends... tell me about Clint Barton/Jessica Drew. All I know is that it's ending. A lot of people ship Jessica with Carol. I know about Carol thanks to the new comics (that are great! you need to get them if you haven't already) and I know about Clint. I don't know about Jessica. What do I need to know? Where should I go looking for more info (other than the usual wikis because I'm not finding a lot there that humanizes her enough that I can get on board with the character)? What comic books should I be investigating?

Right now I'm a huge Carol/Tracy shipper but I can be swayed.

For the most part, I've been ignoring Jessica and pretending that she doesn't exist. I'm a third-grader like that! Help me have some sort of feeling for her!

Date: 2013-07-14 12:43 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] cybermathwitch.livejournal.com
I can't really help with the feels per se - I only know her from the Hawkeye books, and the first couple chapters I previewed of "Breakout" and wasn't impressed?

BUT - because I wanted more info myself, I asked my brother (who's following all the current comics and has been for years. He's also a Jess/Carol 'shipper. My Marvel-info-ness stops and starts with the X-Men titles and Power Pack, but he's got most of the Avengers as well.) According to him, they got together, and have had a flirty-kissing-banter-hanging-out thing going on, but haven't had any "big conversations" about what the relationship was or meant or anything.

Clint is still an idiot. He should've thought "oh, hey, Jess and I have been doing this thing, I wonder what she would think of me doing this?" before doing anything with What'sHerName.

However. I get the impression from reading their argument, that Jess is probably just as mad that he doesn't (apparently) view the relationship the way she was assuming he was. They both made assumptions (potentially), in opposite directions, about what was going on. It wasn't good or nice or okay that Clint didn't think "maybe I should check first?" but it's also not okay to decide in your own head that relationships mean certain things or certain rules are in effect and hold the other person to them Without Telling Them They're There and then get mad when they break them. And hit them. T(hr)wice. And tell them they're a terrible person, and drag their previous marriage into the argument (that you were not a part of), and tell his friend to stop hanging out with him because he's a Terrible Person who will ruin them.

So, because of my own personal experiences and hang-ups about relationships, I'm really not okay with what Jess said or did. And I'll also freely admit that since Clint and Kate are the characters I'm familiar with and attached to I'm defensive about them. (Which is why I checked with John about details first.)

Date: 2013-07-14 02:09 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] lar_laughs.livejournal.com
ext_385301: blue bow (Marvel - I hereby declare this canon)
Don't say things like that! I bought the hardcover version of Breakout!

That is a very good run down of things. Thank you! Since I adore Carol, I think I will hunt down the comics where they have their thing, just so I'm up to speed. So far, I haven't gotten a lot of ideas out of the Captain Marvel comics for a Carol story so I'm kind of stuck in a holding pattern for her.

The whole thing about bringing his marriage into the argument only makes me want to work on the Clint/Kate/Bobbi idea all the more! Now that's a relationship that puts the old to rest!

Thank you so much!

Date: 2013-07-14 02:13 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] cybermathwitch.livejournal.com
Oh, I didn't mean I wasn't impressed with Breakout -I really want to read it. I wasn't impressed with Jessica in Breakout, from what I've seen so far.

In re: the comic storylines and Jess and Clint and Bobbi, apparently John (my brother) asked the writer that started the Clint/Jess thing about it, and was told that it was supposed to be a kind of in-between thing to help Clint get a better understanding of some of the things that had happened with Bobbi so that he (the writer) could eventually get them back together later. Unfortunately, the comic switched to another writer and he never got to finish out that arc.
Edited Date: 2013-07-14 02:15 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-14 03:11 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] lar_laughs.livejournal.com
ext_385301: blue bow (Marvel - I hereby declare this canon)
That is the saddest thing I've heard all day long! But also VERY encouraging! Very. Encouraging.

Date: 2013-07-14 02:14 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] cybermathwitch.livejournal.com
Also? I hadn't had any Captain Marvel feels at all, until SugarFey pointed out how excellent Katee Sackhoff would be for the roll, and thus I am all "SIGN ME UP" about it. BECAUSE KATEE SACKHOFF. (Not that they'll probably actually cast her, but one can hope, right?)

Date: 2013-07-14 03:07 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] lar_laughs.livejournal.com
ext_385301: blue bow (Self Rescuing Princess)
As a Navy brat with a "pilot in flight suit" obsession, I was poised to love Carol. I was also, come to think of it, poised to love Starbuck! Both of them!

Katee would be awesome cast as Carol. I don't know why they SHOULDN'T cast her. She's perfect!
Clint/Jessica was a bad idea from the start. Clint has major commitment issues post-Bobbi and Jessica has major trust issues, so it was never going to go well if the writers stayed true to their personalities. Clint cheated on her, possibly more than once, and Jessica reacted badly. She shouldn't have hit him, but she had every right to be angry.

Jessica was captured in a terrorist training camp where she was horribly brainwashed and manipulated, so she has major trust issues and ongoing trauma. She was also kidnapped by Skrulls at one point. The comic 'Spider-Woman: Agent of S.W.O.R.D' is really good.

Her friendship with Carol is adorable and I ship the hell out of them. :D
ext_385301: blue bow (Marvel - Clint colored lens)
Thank you!!!!! All good info!!!!

So, do you ignore the Clint/Jessica thing or chalk it up to bad timing for both of them?
Bad timing and bad writing. They're not well suited, and Clint was a dick. Which is probably why Bobbi and Natasha were on Team Jess when the shitstorm went down. Now that Clint and Jess have broken up it will probably be forgotten soon.

Clint cheating was the start of a major downward spiral where he hurts every single person in his life, so I'm on Team Jess too.

Date: 2013-07-14 06:05 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] frea-o.livejournal.com
I'm basically coming over here to echo everything [livejournal.com profile] sugar_fey just said because Jessica Drew is absolutely one of my favorite characters in Marvel, and I'll tell you why:

She likes sandwiches.

And she told Hulk to make her a sandwich once and he did (http://media.tumblr.com/5124aafa0fb7fa6316e46ad67711ffcc/tumblr_mp9ckx2GBu1rcdmano6_500.jpg).

The Hawkeye comic doesn't paint her in the best light, which is unfortunate because she is way too awesome for Clint. If anything, it made me really start disliking Clint for cheating on somebody as amazing as Jessica. Yeah, I understand that he's going through some things and everything, but I'm just tired of him now. Because Jessica is fun, and snarky, and witty. She's, as somebody put it on Tumblr, the Tina Fey of the Avengers, and I can kind of see it. She and Carol keep each other from getting too serious, and they are the best friends. I ship them together, but I also adore their friendship, so it can go either way for me.

Here's proof of how great Jessica can be:

Image

Image

Image

And she's self-aware in a hilarious way:

Image

Really, you should read anytime Kelly Sue DeConnick takes her on because then Jessica really shines. But definitely check out the Agent of Sword series Sugar recommended because you get to see Jessica at her lowest and it's such a great plot. I'm trying to get my hands on her other series, which is at a local library that I don't have a card for anymore.

And here's even more proof that Jessica and Carol's friendship is great and banter-worthy in the middle of combat:

Image

Date: 2013-07-15 04:58 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] lar_laughs.livejournal.com
ext_385301: blue bow (Marvel - I Still Believe)
Those are funny scenes! Thanks for sharing them! Now I'll know in what direction to head!

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